Title: Pinegrove Hotel - Latest Reviews, Deals & Photos 2025 - Expedia.ca [See all properties](http://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?regionId=&adults=2&children=&sort=RECOMMENDED&useRewards=false&semdtl=&userIntent=&vip=false) # Pinegrove Hotel Hotel in Carlisle with free parking ![Meeting facility](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/9d931ad2.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=598&ra=fit) ![Single Room](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/e62771a0.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=297&ra=fit) ![Interior](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/242bf195.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=297&ra=fit) ![Exterior](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/57ca68c2.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=297&ra=fit) ![Standard Family Room (Sleeps 3)](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/a5ba4a6d.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=297&ra=fit) - Overview - Rooms - Location - Policies The Pinegrove Hotel creates a warm atmosphere where guests connect using in-room WiFi and unwind at the friendly bar. Previous visitors consistently mention the welcoming environment, while appreciating the substantial breakfast options and convenient parking situation. 7.0 Good ## Popular amenities - - Bar - Pet-friendly - Housekeeping - Parking included - Free WiFi ## Room options ### Check availability for these dates Tonight [Nov. 6 - Nov. 7](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-06&endDate=2025-11-07&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) [](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-06&endDate=2025-11-07&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) Tomorrow [Nov. 7 - Nov. 8](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-07&endDate=2025-11-08&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) [](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-07&endDate=2025-11-08&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) This weekend [Nov. 7 - Nov. 9](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-07&endDate=2025-11-09&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) [](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-07&endDate=2025-11-09&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) Next weekend [Nov. 14 - Nov. 16](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-14&endDate=2025-11-16&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) [](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-14&endDate=2025-11-16&selected=42423416&PinnedHotelID=42423416&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) All rooms 1 bed 2 beds 3+ beds Showing 5 of 5 rooms ![Single Room](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/d84d2506.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1200&h=800&quality=medium) ### Single Room 8.0 Very good 5 reviews ### Highlights Individually furnished Individually decorated Heating Flat-screen TV Private bathroom Hair dryer Electric kettle Coffee/tea maker - Sleeps 1 - 1 Twin Bed ![Double Room](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/80055236.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1200&h=800&quality=medium) ### Double Room 7.6 Good 13 reviews ### Highlights Individually furnished Individually decorated Heating Flat-screen TV Private bathroom Hair dryer Electric kettle Coffee/tea maker - Sleeps 2 - 1 Double Bed ![Twin Room](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/8ec17584.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1200&h=800&quality=medium) ### Twin Room ### Highlights Individually furnished Individually decorated Heating Flat-screen TV Private bathroom Hair dryer Electric kettle Coffee/tea maker - Sleeps 2 - 2 Twin Beds ![Standard Family Room (Sleeps 3)](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/a5ba4a6d.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1200&h=800&quality=medium) ### Standard Family Room (Sleeps 3) 8.0 Very good 3 reviews ### Highlights Individually furnished Individually decorated Heating Flat-screen TV Private bathroom Hair dryer Electric kettle Coffee/tea maker - Sleeps 3 - 1 Double Bed and 1 Twin Bed ![Standard Family Room (Sleeps 4)](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/43000000/42430000/42423500/42423416/f59389fb.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=1200&h=800&quality=medium) ### Standard Family Room (Sleeps 4) ### Highlights Individually furnished Individually decorated Heating Flat-screen TV Private bathroom Hair dryer Electric kettle Coffee/tea maker - Sleeps 4 - 1 Double Bed and 2 Twin Beds ![Mod logo](https://a.travel-assets.com/pricing-claim/sparkle_dark.svg) Sign in to view eligible discounts and perks. 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[Sign in](https://www.expedia.ca/login?ckoflag=0&uurl=e3id%3Dredr%26rurl%3D%2FCarlisle-Hotels-Pinegrove-Hotel.h42423416.Hotel-Information)[Sign up, it's free](https://www.expedia.ca/signup?enable_registration=true&uurl=e3id%3Dredr%26rurl%3D%2FCarlisle-Hotels-Pinegrove-Hotel.h42423416.Hotel-Information) ## About the area ![Map](https://maps.googleapis.com/maps/api/staticmap?&size=660x330&map_id=3b266eb50d2997c6&zoom=13&markers=icon:https%3A%2F%2Fa.travel-assets.com%2Ftravel-assets-manager%2Feg-maps%2Fproperty.png%7C54.87987%2C-2.91144&channel=expedia-HotelInformation&maptype=roadmap&scale=1&key=AIzaSyCYjQus5kCufOpSj932jFoR_AJiL9yiwOw&signature=q76ytjwL9y23Ho0sCdxg_zYjtFI=) 262 London Rd, Carlisle, England, CA1 2QS #### What's nearby - Carlisle Cathedral - 4 min drive - 2.7 km - Brunton Park - 4 min drive - 2.6 km - The Sands Centre - 4 min drive - 3.1 km - Carlisle Castle - 5 min drive - 3.4 km - Carlisle Racecourse - 6 min drive - 3.6 km #### Getting around - Carlisle Station - 6 min drive - Carlisle (CAX) - 21 min drive #### Restaurants - ‪McDonald's - ‬13 min walk - ‪Pizza Hut - ‬9 min walk - ‪KFC Carlisle - ‬6 min walk - ‪The Citadel - ‬3 min drive - ‪Central Chippy - ‬10 min walk ## About this property ### Pinegrove Hotel Property highlights Pinegrove Hotel provides a bar and more. Stay connected with free in-room WiFi. Other perks at this hotel include: - Free self parking - English breakfast (surcharge), 2 meeting rooms, and a banquet hall - Smoke-free premises Room features All guestrooms are individually furnished, and include amenities such as free WiFi. More amenities include: - Free tea bags/instant coffee and electric kettles - Showers, free toiletries, and hair dryers - Flat-screen TVs with digital channels - Heating, daily housekeeping, and desks ## Similar properties ![Reception](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/105000000/104920000/104918800/104918717/b5128f55.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=469&h=201&p=1&q=medium) ### Ox Hotel Carlisle Carlisle - Free WiFi - Gym - Breakfast available - Bar 7.2 Good 472 reviews CA $49 CA $59 total includes taxes & fees Nov 9 - Nov 10 [](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-09&endDate=2025-11-10&selected=104918717&PinnedHotelID=104918717&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) ![Desk, iron/ironing board, free WiFi, bed sheets](https://images.trvl-media.com/lodging/1000000/530000/522300/522300/55f99d26.jpg?impolicy=fcrop&w=469&h=201&p=1&q=medium) ### County Hotel Carlisle - Pet-friendly - Free WiFi - Restaurant - Breakfast available 7.2 Good 1,001 reviews CA $64 CA $77 total includes taxes & fees Dec 1 - 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Breakfast included - Free WiFi 9.2 Wonderful 132 reviews CA $116 CA $140 total includes taxes & fees Nov 12 - Nov 13 [](https://www.expedia.ca/Hotel-Search?startDate=2025-11-12&endDate=2025-11-13&selected=90717756&PinnedHotelID=90717756&HadPinnedHotel=true®ionId=-1&adults=2) ## Property amenities ### Internet - Available in all rooms: Free WiFi - Available in some public areas: Free WiFi ### Parking and transportation - Free self parking on site - Free RV/bus/truck parking on site ### Food and drink - English breakfast available for a fee 7:30 AM to 9:30 AM on weekdays and 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM on weekends; GBP 10 for adults and GBP 10 for children - A bar/lounge ### Conveniences - Guidebooks ### Guest services - Housekeeping (daily) ### Business services - 2 meeting rooms ### Accessibility - If you have requests for specific accessibility needs, please contact the property using the information on the reservation confirmation received after booking. - Upper floors accessible by stairs only - Wheelchair accessible (may have limitations) ### More - Banquet hall - Smoking not allowed ## Room amenities ### Bedroom - Bedsheets provided ### Bathroom - Free toiletries - Hair dryer - Shower - Towels provided ### Entertainment - Flat-screen TV with digital channels ### Food and drink - Coffee/tea maker - Electric kettle - Tea bags/instant coffee ### More - Desk - Heating - Individual decor - Individual furnishings - Iron/ironing board on request - Phone ## Policies ### Check-in Check-in start time: 3:00 PM; Check-in end time: 11:00 PM Contactless check-in available Minimum check-in age: 18 ### Check-out Check-out before 10:00 AM Contactless check-out available ### Special check-in instructions There is no front desk at this property The host will greet guests on arrival This property doesn't offer after-hours check-in ### Access methods Host will greet you ### Pets Pets allowed for an extra charge of GBP 15 per pet, per night Service animals are welcome, and are exempt from fees Welcoming dogs and cats only ### Children and extra beds Children are welcome ### Property payment types ## Important information ### Optional extras - Fee for English breakfast: approximately GBP 10 for adults and GBP 10 for children - Pet fee: GBP 15 per pet, per night - Service animals are exempt from fees The above list may not be comprehensive. Fees and deposits may not include tax and are subject to change. ### You need to know Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy Government-issued photo identification and a credit card, debit card, or cash deposit may be required at check-in for incidental charges Special requests are subject to availability upon check-in and may incur additional charges; special requests cannot be guaranteed This property accepts credit cards; cash is not accepted Safety features at this property include a first aid kit ### We should mention This property does not have elevators ### Property is also known as Pinegrove Hotel Hotel Pinegrove Hotel Carlisle Pinegrove Hotel Hotel Carlisle ## Frequently asked questions ### Is Pinegrove Hotel pet-friendly? > Yes, cats and dogs are allowed at this property. There's a fee of GBP 15 per pet, per night. Service animals are exempt from fees. ### How much does it cost to stay at Pinegrove Hotel? > As of Nov 6, 2025, prices found for a 1-night stay for 2 adults at Pinegrove Hotel on Nov 9, 2025 start from CA $109.36, excluding taxes and fees. This price is based on the lowest nightly price found in the last 24 hours for stays in the next 30 days. Prices are subject to change. [Choose your dates](https://www.expedia.ca/Carlisle-Hotels-Pinegrove-Hotel.h42423416.Hotel-Information?rfrr=HOT.HIS.question.link.click) for more accurate prices. ### How much is parking at Pinegrove Hotel? > Self parking is free at this property. ### What time is check-in at Pinegrove Hotel? > Check-in start time: 3:00 PM; Check-in end time: 11:00 PM. After-hours check-in is not available. ### What time is check-out at Pinegrove Hotel? > Check-out is at 10:00 AM. ### Where is Pinegrove Hotel located? > Situated in Carlisle, this hotel is within a 15-minute walk of Eden Rock and Carlisle Masjid. University of Cumbria and Brunton Park are also within 2 mi (3 km). Carlisle Station is 25 minutes by foot and Carlisle Railway Station (CXX) is 28 minutes. ## Have a question? Beta Get instant answers with AI powered search of property information and reviews. Ask a question ## Pinegrove Hotel Reviews 7.0 ### Good All reviews shown are from real guest experiences. Only travellers who have booked a stay with us can submit a review. We verify reviews according to our guidelines and publish all reviews, positive or negative.[More information](https://www.expedia.ca/lp/b/content-guidelines) 10 - Excellent 52 8 - Good 58 6 - Okay 34 4 - Poor 18 2 - Terrible 27 ### 7.0/10 Cleanliness ### 7.8/10 Staff & service ### 7.0/10 Amenities ### 6.2/10 Property conditions & facilities ### 6.2/10 Eco-friendliness ### 8/10 Good #### Tim Sep 24, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities Old building but comfortable not far off the highway. ##### Tim Stayed 1 night in Sep 2025 ### 4/10 Poor #### Julie Aug 9, 2025 Liked: Staff & service Family of 4 (adult children) stopped here for a night on our way to Edinburgh. The hotel was redesigned to a hotel in the 1980s from a historical building from the 1880s. Decor is original from both centuries. It is in need of major updates. However, beds were fine and shower worked ok. The walls are thin and we were happy our neighbors didn’t talk loud all night. I’d keep searching for another spot if I were you, but the stay here was adequate. ##### Julie Stayed 1 night in Aug 2025 ### 8/10 Good #### Howard Mar 24, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service #### Friendly overnight stay in Carlisle Old building with character in a good position on main road going into Carlisle from South with good parking. Very friendly and helpful staff and excellent value for money. Good sized room but not much furniture ##### Howard Stayed 1 night in Mar 2025 ### 6/10 Okay #### Stephen Jul 11, 2025 . ##### Stephen Stayed 1 night in Jun 2025 ### 4/10 Poor #### Julie Jun 19, 2025 Disliked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort rooms had a smell and felt generally dirty ##### Julie Stayed 1 night in Jun 2025 ### 8/10 Good #### Ryan May 30, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service Disliked: Property conditions & facilities Staff were very polite, but the breakfast was average and a little greasy, but they were very attentive. The facilities were very dated and our window didn't shut properly and there was not another room for us to go to, not a massive issue in the end though as it was pretty quiet outside. Overall was a pleasant stay and would stay again, I would recommend maybe some uniforms and some modernising of the rooms though and maybe purchase something that cooks with less fat as well. ##### Ryan Stayed 1 night in May 2025 ### 2/10 Terrible #### David Jun 14, 2025 Disliked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort RIP off hotel, clearly double booked the room and failed to honour the booking with hotels.com that was made months in advance of the rat run the wall ultra marathon race. Profiteering….claimed to have no relationship with hotels.com, no evidence of the booking except on review I found an invite on the hotels.com messaging service for online checkin. This caused a great deal of stress for myself and my wife to find alternative accommodation in an over booked town. Luckily we found a pub, 25 minutes away…… ##### David Stayed 1 night in Jun 2025 ### 8/10 Good #### sebastian Feb 26, 2020 Liked: Staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Carlisle Town Centre Close Very Friendly staff, very helpful in a decent room, extremely good value and well located ##### sebastian Stayed 1 night in Feb 2020 ### 8/10 Good #### billy Mar 3, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service Disliked: Amenities, property conditions & facilities the service was ok but the overall decour and furniture so outdated and im a slim built man and the shower space was just way too small ##### billy Stayed 1 night in Feb 2025 ### 8/10 Good #### Dave Aug 25, 2024 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service I found this place as needed somewhere at last minute. It was almost half the price of a premier inn or travelodge but still had everything you get in one of them. Slept really well. Courtesy call from hotel as it was getting close to 11pm and I hadn’t checked in. I’d stay again. ##### Dave Stayed 1 night in Aug 2024 ### 6/10 Okay #### Darren Nov 25, 2022 Liked: Cleanliness Disliked: Property conditions & facilities Out side looked amazing was clean but room I stayed in was in need of modernising for the £90 wasn’t worth the money ![](https://a.travel-assets.com/ugc/hotel-reviews/CD97A9851E78E3B486D729AC3E699EB1CAA2929A1669400567639.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=204&ra=fit&q=high) ##### Darren Stayed 1 night in Nov 2022 ### 8/10 Good #### Stephen Jun 8, 2023 Liked: Cleanliness Poor choice at breakfast. Room was clean ##### Stephen Stayed 2 nights in Jun 2023 ### 8/10 Good #### David Sep 4, 2024 Liked: Staff & service Reception was great very friendly and helpful. Rooms are very basic, but there is a lot of ambient noise from other rooms upstairs and neighbouring rooms. Generally, the building is tired both internally and externally. I was woken a couple of times in the night by very noisy neighbours and unfortunately you can hear the use of other bathrooms in neighbouring rooms which is rather unpleasant. ##### David Stayed 1 night in Sep 2024 ### 2/10 Terrible #### James Jun 2, 2024 Disliked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Eww Terrible. Dilapidated. Worn. Dirty. Smelly. Wife and kids refused to take a shower and no way we were taking a chance on breakfast. Saving grace- it was only a 1 night stay. ##### James Stayed 1 night in Jun 2024 ### 2/10 Terrible #### Steven Mar 9, 2023 Disliked: Cleanliness, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Really Poor You get what you pay for, a roof over my head for the night. The room was awful and certainly not clean or warm. It had a smell , sorry to say I felt dirty when I left, the carpet must have been 25 years old, just crap. The guy on reception was nice, the only positive. The building is fab and is in desperate need of some tlc inside and out. I wont be back, shame was some investment it would be fab. ##### Steven Stayed 1 night in Mar 2023 ### 2/10 Terrible #### Verified traveller Dec 1, 2024 Disliked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Dystopian. Do not book. Filthy hole. Shocking. Arrived to the ‘girl’ slumped in her chair on her phone and couldn’t care a less. Handed me my keys and told me room 4. Room 4 freezing cold, window left open and damp. A tiny water radiator heater to plug into the wall which had only just warmed the room by morning. The room and bathroom were filthy. The shower head was broken and mould all over the walls. The furniture was shabby, the bed base was disgusting and filthy, carpets filthy and sticky. Hairdryer sparked green sparks, made loud noises and died, so I was left with wet hair. I had to sleep in my coat to stay warm. The building is falling apart and is filthy inside and out. There are cracks in the ceiling with water ingress and dodgy electrical wiring held together with tape. The breakfast was ok. Another guest had to let staff know I’d arrived for breakfast and the same girl from the night before arrived and was on her phone the entire sitting. Had I not travelled 9 hours, I would have left and found somewhere else. Seriously Hotels.com this place should not be listed. It is distopian. I know it was cheap but the basic human needs were not met. ##### Verified traveller Stayed 1 night in Nov 2024 ### 6/10 Okay #### Janis Nov 2, 2025 Liked: Staff & service, amenities Disliked: Property conditions & facilities Okay. The tub had no non slip tub stickers. I slipped on the tub and fell backwards out of the tub onto my back and hit my head. You need to put something non slip in your tubs. I was lucky I wasnt seriously injured. ##### Janis Stayed 1 night in Nov 2025 ### 8/10 Good #### Luana Oct 21, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service, amenities, property conditions & facilities Bed ok, pillows bad, staff great. Shower no pressure and tiny. Temp control of water awkward. Would normally be quite but there was a party that night which made it loud and the fireworks didn't help. ##### Luana Stayed 1 night in Oct 2025 ### 10/10 Excellent #### lokesh Sep 22, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service, amenities, property conditions & facilities Great location and check in was smooth ##### lokesh Stayed 1 night in Sep 2025 ### 8/10 Good #### Bernard Aug 16, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service A choice of dining options within easy walking distance. In spite of a somewhat run down appearance the Pinegrove offers great value accommodation with the essentials provided (comfortable beds, decent shower, TV, kettle with tea and coffee in the room). ##### Bernard Stayed 1 night in Aug 2025 ### 10/10 Excellent #### David Aug 6, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Staff are Great and very accommodating! Very welcoming staff, who went out of their way to accommodate us with a late check-in and check out. My children really enjoyed our stay in this cosy hotel in Carlisle! ##### David Stayed 1 night in Aug 2025 ### 6/10 Okay #### Giuseppe Mario Jul 31, 2025 Liked: Cleanliness Disliked: Property conditions & facilities La struttura andrebbe rinnovata. In particolare il bagno era veramente antiquato (tra l'altro la doccia era talmente fioca che non abbiamo potuto utilizzarla). ##### Giuseppe Mario Stayed 1 night in Jul 2025 ### 2/10 Terrible #### Shaun Jul 23, 2025 Disliked: Cleanliness, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Worsted hotel I’ve ever stopped in I checked in on the 22nd,this hotel needs condemning holes in the wall shower that can only be described as a minging. It felt overwhelming to spend any time in the room so I left within a hour and found a Days inn which was 100% more in keeping to how a hotel room should be,very disappointed with the experience and would not stay at this hotel ever again in the future. ![](https://a.travel-assets.com/ugc/hotel-reviews/b78aa4d0-4e02-4031-b05f-6f8ca2acae3c-1753253418421.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=204&ra=fit&q=high) ![](https://a.travel-assets.com/ugc/hotel-reviews/60337c0b-505f-4f50-8850-7a80dd2c4362-1753253415373.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=204&ra=fit&q=high) ![](https://a.travel-assets.com/ugc/hotel-reviews/fd2b6d21-f659-464d-a907-14aedeb6ac56-1753253411375.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=204&ra=fit&q=high) ![](https://a.travel-assets.com/ugc/hotel-reviews/b433b91e-6745-4b1d-862b-be866fbd1178-1753253413797.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=204&ra=fit&q=high) ##### Shaun Stayed 1 night in Jul 2025 ### 2/10 Terrible #### James Jul 18, 2025 Disliked: Cleanliness, staff & service, property conditions & facilities, room comfort #### Never stay here. Horrible. From the start to the finish, this hotel is horrible. the receptionist kept saying the place was getting refurbed, but clearly we didnt get a refurbed room in the roof for a family of 3. Smelt bad, looked bad, felt bad. Didnt get to try the free breakfast as we couldnt get out of there fast enough, didnt want skirvy. The shower had cobwebs within arms reach & on the ceiling above, we could clearly see 2 dead mice & a dead bird. ![](https://a.travel-assets.com/ugc/hotel-reviews/69c3a65c-1c99-4cde-8a7d-38828267c8f6-1752858747856.jpg?impolicy=resizecrop&rw=204&ra=fit&q=high) ##### James Stayed 1 night in Jul 2025 ### 6/10 Okay #### Tania Jul 15, 2025 Liked: Staff & service, room comfort Disliked: Cleanliness #### Disappointing Lovely big room and bed was very comfy. However, cleanliness let it down. We had someone elses towels left hanging on bathroom door and the bin was filthy inside. 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